CIAO NIRVANA OR THE DOOYOO BURNING COALS OF HADES? (dooyoo vs other opinion websites)

Member Name: marandina

Product:	dooyoo vs other opinion websites
Date:	10/07/04 (92 review reads)
Rating:

Advantages: See op

Disadvantages: See op

***Preamble***
It wasn?t so long ago that I posted an opinion that I?m not proud of. It wasn?t the content or even the emotions involved at the time but simply that it wasn?t really an opinion so much as a moan. Most folks on Dooyoo won?t have read it as it was mainly about Ciao posted on Ciao. I?ve since had it deleted but it banged on about a number of issues albeit some at a surface level whilst the main theme was centred on the vagaries of the Premium Fund. One of my biggest disappointments was that some took it as merely a rant about pay rates and awards on Ciao. This seemed ridiculously oblique when so many other things were mentioned and it?s hard to imagine anyone being serious about making real money on either Dooyoo OR Ciao. Still, people interpret how they want to sometimes and it did make a veiled reference to one particular opinion that had been awarded a diamond which, in hindsight, was hugely unfair on both the opinion and the writer concerned. To him, I apologise again and for what it?s worth, I understand the reasons why he?s chosen to ignore me from now on.

Having read the prolific, if ever so slightly mad, Lookaroundcafe2?s Ciao v Dooyoo op, it did seem to present a constructive opportunity to set the record straight. Whilst there are other opinion sites out there, they pale into insignificance when it comes to the big 2. I mean both URI and Big Rag seem to have gone to the dogs whilst others hardly get any traffic at all. So, forgive me for mainly focusing on the Dooyoo v Ciao argument if I may. Just to recap, the issues covered in that original Ciao opinion included:

 The stoopid allocation of silly amounts of money monthly from the Premium Fund e.g. 50p

 The seemingly narrow allocation of diamond awards to a group of writers
when the high number of quality ops posted simply meant that statistically, the nature of these awards was extremely curious in their regularity to some to say the least

 The passive abuse of Dooyoo by Ciao writers posting with no intention of reading around and merely using the site as a vehicle to pick up crowns.

 The lack of awareness of Dooyoo guides re the community aspect of these writers in simply continuing to recommend the opinions for crowns and, hence, not supporting the community aspect of Dooyoo.

 In turn, whether there should be a link at all between reading around, crown awards or whether the link is so much more tenuous on Dooyoo due to it?s thread format or whether it?s right that a writer should win crowns without reading around at all (whether a Ciao writer or not and theoretically, the answer is yes but morally maybe not)

Anyway, hopefully these issues can be covered within this comparison and possibly stimulate some intelligent observations from the small Dooyoo community notwithstanding that a Ouiga board is called for these days on dear old Dooyoo.

***Raison d?être***
Both sites exist to generate revenue. Whatever you may say about relative aspects of community, Ciao gets income from online sales, surveys and manufacturers based on feedback either through quality opinions posted or survey feedback from members. Of course, pop ups and the like kick in too so Ciao is definitely there to derive an income stream.

Dooyoo also gets it?s income from site related sales clicks although it doesn?t appear to be active on the survey side. If it is, I must have missed it because I?ve never completed a profile or received any surveys. Dooyoo?s pop ups etc are more annoying than Ciao?s in their irritating regularity but you can always employ a Pop Up stopper. Persona
lly, I found that this created more problems than it solved what with crashing my PC and stuff but it is a possibility.

Both sites are equally interested in logged out reads i.e. people re-directed to opinions posted courtesy of various search engines, in particular, Google. Dooyoo seem more keen than Ciao as it keeps the pay per reads down with the 3p still ongoing (see below)

***Community***
For me, this is the single biggest difference between the 2 sites. Dooyoo has a small remaining community simply because the site has taken the view that it didn?t want to encourage the community aspect. There has been talk of guest books on Dooyoo for a considerable amount of time but they have never materialised and never will by the looks of things. It?s to Dooyoo?s huge discredit that Tooyoo unofficial guest books became the recognised community link to the site outside of the comments on threads that are, in theory, not meant to include personal comments. Of course, off-topic remarks are nearly always made because of this and my personal view is that these aren?t a bad thing bearing in mind the general quietness of the site and Tooyoo/T2 these days. Without them, the place really would be THE most silent of places where a pin could be heard dropping at Dooyoo HQ in Berlin.

Ciao has had massive success in actively encouraging the community aspect. The enhancements made following the site reformat in public and private guestbooks, the facility to delete comments and the continuing popularity of the Ciao Café where you can post anything on any subject has meant a strong community feel has grown and grown over time. This runs parallel with the consumer aspect of posting opinions on everything from nappies to movies and seems to be a big winner despite the presence of other forums for general debate that exist outside of 
7;iao.

***Premium Fund/Crowns/Diamonds***
As ever, this is the most contentious of aspects across both sites and will always be so.

By way of clarity, Ciao operates a Premium Fund, which is a set amount of money to reward quality opinions. It?s not an aspect that I look into that deeply as I tend to dismiss it as a reason for writing on Ciao so forgive me for any inaccuracies. I seem to remember there being around £1100 to carve up between the writing base on a monthly basis including about 30 opinions that would get a diamond GIF image along with an award of between £10 and £30 depending on whether it was included as a monthly competition entry.

Dooyoo, on the other hand, seeks to make awards weekly of £1.50 and a crown GIF to around 10% of opinions in each category which are then listed as rewarded reviews for everyone to see (as Ciao does creating a section for diamond winning opinions)

Ongoing complaints about both are similar and longstanding. Some Dooyoo writers feel that the same writers win most of the crowns, some Ciao writers feel the same way about diamond winners. There will NEVER be a solution that keeps everybody happy as there can only be so many awards to go around and they are intended to be for the best opinions. Of course, your definition of "best" is open to interpretation although the number of crowns awarded together with the smaller monetary value when compared to Ciao does suggest that at least more writers get recognised. This is no mean feat when your bear in mind the huge numbers of postings on Ciao over the course of a month versus the comparatively small number of Dooyoo postings suggesting a much higher percentage of writers getting something on Dooyoo.


***Pay per reads***
Miraculously, Dooyoo continues to p
ay out 3p per read as opposed to anything from nothing to 0.5p to 2p per read on Ciao depending on the category you write in. The popular cats i.e. movies and books appear to attract a nil payment unless it?s a new movie release in which case if you are first to post about that subject you can get an extra 0.5p per read in the first month. To tell you the truth, the altruistic aspects are something I?m not that close too and there will be other financial nuances that I?m sure that writers can exploit. Whichever way you look at it though, even with a much smaller read count per op on Dooyoo you will earn more than on Ciao if that is your intention and there is nothing wrong in that at all. After all, decent opinions take a while to research and write whilst reading around takes it?s time on the old time schedule too.

Within this is the debate around why writers post at all. With little to differentiate between Ciao and Dooyoo with regards to the consumer aspect, Ciao does hold the cards when it comes to encouraging creative writers. With the chance to wax lyrical in the Ciao Café section, it does draw a line between those wanting to post a straight consumer reference based on what one thought of a particular product as opposed to something more nebulous that can be enjoyed for what it is. This creativity v efficiency is a fascinating debate that captures the reason for writing in the first place, at least for me. In saying that, I realise that this is NOT the case for many and who can say whether anyone is ultimately right or wrong as to whether you are posting a review, opinion or simply a creative piece? For me, there is a huge difference and it?s very easily missed (confused? Yeah..OK..I?ll move on)

***Archive***
Trying to find a category on Dooyoo continues to be a painful experience. Slow connection and an indeciph
erable search facility mean that you?ll probably find gent?s underwear rather than a review about that movie you were searching for. There is no contest at the mo with Ciao being so much more organised, quicker and straightforward. By way of an example, I?ve virtually given up trying to post movie ops on Dooyoo as I just can?t find the category I want! <Big smile from the few reading>

***Rating***
Oh dear! Again, a hugely contentious area on both sites: Dooyoo continues with its options of not useful, somewhat useful, useful and very useful with an option to click to recommend an opinion for a crown. Ciao has the similar not helpful, somewhat helpful, helpful and very helpful as well as the recent additions - off-topic and exceptional. Again, I still wonder what the point of ratings are, what with the option to make a comment. I guess for those who want to skim or simply not comment than rating is a Godsend but apart from letting the writer know how good your feel their work is I don?t see much more of a point and it?s a tenuous one at best. After all, a short comment means so much more than a click on a rating. Certainly, the notion that there is a link between rating exceptional on Ciao and an award winning a diamond simply isn?t a factor. If you examine the opinions that win and the number of times ?E? has been clicked (if at all) you will see for yourself whilst most crowns are awarded per guide recommendations on Dooyoo rather than due to member nominations. I understand the German Dooyoo site operates on clicks to crowns but maybe that would simply reward the most popular members.

Needless to say, this is a subject in itself but, to my mind, ratings merely sort an archive into a priority where the best opinions are propelled towards the top and will get the most ongoing reads. Therein lies another vagary with the impact o
f a rating other than VH/VU but I?m not going into that here!

***COF v Buddies***
Popular in both camps, there is no limit as to how may folks you include in your circle of friends on Dooyoo whilst Ciao limit the newly named buddy list to 100 forcing the writer to consider his friends carefully. Again, it?s nice to have lots of folks include you - as to what purpose this serves when you can put a writer you want to follow on e-mail alert is another issue ? and writers will always like this facility. Ciao has a community points scheme that credits points according to ratings received, opinions posted and buddy additions where the buddy aspect equates to 80 points per buddies who have added you to their list. These points accumulate giving the writer a community status based on their coloured dot. In the main, a popular aspect of Ciao but utterly pointless, I?m afraid and simply papers over the reduction in pay-per-reads brought about a while ago as a clever replacement on Ciao.

***New Suggestions***
This is a Herculean task on Dooyoo at the mo although a neat scam of Proxam?s is tapping any old gobbledegook into the search option which should bring up the suggest a new product thingy. Not ideal if the category already exists but then see the comments re archive above!

Ciao is generally quick with responses usually in the region of a few days to a week.

***Guides***
Both sites have guides although the Dooyoo guides do seem to have more influence with the requirement of recommending opinions weekly for crowning to Dooyoo HQ. In general, Dooyoo guides seem to be helpful and upbeat (even if I say so myself ) although it?s no easy task if the category is a busy one like movies or books and there is absolutely no financial incentive involved with being a guideroonie. Well, you get
your piccie posted in the Dooyoo guidey thingy with a wee speech but that?s about it.

***Recommendations for improvements***
Well, there is a category for this and I?ve banged on for long enough already but as an overview:

Dooyoo:
 Change policy and embrace community via introduction of proper guestbooks and anything else that will generate a bigger writer base

 Sort the archive out so that it can be searched quickly and easily!

 Improve the suggest an item facility i.e. get more staff on it!

Ciao:
 Make the Premium Fund transparent i.e. tell writers what they have won and why

 Remove the small awards and replace with draw entries or something that doesn?t mess with a writer?s pride

***The Future***
The future of the 2 sites look very different or maybe intertwined. You could see one big site coming out of an amalgamation of the 2 against a backdrop of a declining Dooyoo and a seemingly stable Ciao. To be honest, when Katie left at the start of the year I thought it was all over for Dooyoo so I?m surprised it?s still around. Whenever I used to challenge Katie on speculation about Dooyoo?s future all she would commit to was that it was part of the business plan for 2004 so you still wonder whether this will be the final year for Dooyoo.

Ciao?s reduction in payments monthly suggests a continuing squeeze on it?s finances although, on the surface, it appears to be an ongoing concern and solvent. All I would day is that you can never tell. Just look at the online arm of Reed UK which disappeared over night. I?m sure that won?t happen with Ciao UK but who knows?

***Conclusion***
Well, I?m up to nearly 2600 words on this one so apologies if I?ve bored you. B
;oring people is something I am very good at. As to which site is best, I?ll leave up to you to decide. I know which I prefer but ultimately it?s about people and the vast majority I encounter are great. Yeah, I read the occasional interesting opinion too <Yawns..he, he> but you can?t take the people out of the donkey or?erm?something like that

As ever, me being the off-topic merchant that I am, I would like to thank those poor souls that tolerate my occasional petulance on either site. I am a banker after all. May all of your troubles be little ones.

Thanks for reading

Mara

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