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No Dogs - Irish - Or Women Allowed -  Feminism Discussion
Feminism 

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No Dogs - Irish - Or Women Allowed (Feminism)

kenjohn

Member Name: kenjohn

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Feminism

Date: 18/01/09 (169 review reads)
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The best anyone can hope to do with a topic as all encompassing as feminism is to scratch the surface. It's simply too complex and with too many facets to truly reach any real conclusions. In some respects feminism *HASN'T* gone far enough, and yet in other areas it's gone too damned far already.

First let's take a wee look at some of the areas where I think it hasn't gone far enough.
The simple unadulterated truth is that in the majority of cases if two applicants apply for a job or for a promotion in a work situation, one being male and the other female, almost invariably it is the man who will get the job, even if he happens to be the worst qualified applicant for the position. There are a number of reasons why this is still the case, even today when there is legislation in place to try to ensure that nobody is discriminated against because of their colour, sex or creed.

The "swinging sixties" (only 40 or so years ago) was really the period that saw the first real revolution in regard to women and the workplace. For the first time in history, women were able to freely avail of the contraceptive pill, and thus plan their pregnancies. This meant that they were able to either postpone having children, or choose not to have children at all, which meant that the constraints of having to bring up a child were removed, leaving women better able to follow a career. Since that time women (at least in Western society) have more than proved that given the opportunity they are able to do equally as good as a job as men (or in some cases better) in lots of different professions and jobs that were previously almost exclusively male preserves. But the key phrase in my last sentence is "given the opportunity". In many cases you will find that the upper management echelons of a lot of companies are *STILL* filled by men, who are by nature more inclined to give serious consideration to another man than to a woman.
The old potatoes of "She'll leave to have kids, and all our expensive training will be wasted", or "She'll get married and quit to set up a home", still hold true with a lot of bosses.
So the so-called glass ceiling still exists even today, and is in some ways even worse, as the real reasons why a woman is not given serious consideration for a vacant post or promotion often remain unspoken, and other excuses are found to justify a woman's exclusion.

So no matter what legislation Governments put in place to try to ensure fair play in the work place, ways around them will always be found, until such time as men's mindsets actually change in regard to women. I personally believe that attitudes *ARE* changing for the better, but it's a slow process, and it will take a few more years (or maybe even decades) before all the old prejudices are finally swept away.

Many women still get a raw deal in a domestic situation.
Despite the image displayed in the glossy magazines and the media of today's "liberated man", the simple truth is that old habits die hard, and lots of men still look on their wives as almost the equivalent of a household servant, whose job it is to raise their kids, do their washing, clean their house, and make sure that a hot meal is always on the table. In a way, women have themselves to blame for this state of affairs. Many mothers still cater to the every whim of their beloved sons, with the end result that some men get married without even having a notion of how to cook a wholesome meal, or even iron a shirt, never mind actually pick up a duster or learn how to use a vacuum cleaner! My own mother (God rest her) was guilty as hell of this cardinal sin, and it was only a long period as a bachelor (I got married at 36) that saved me from going to the bad, and taught me how to fend for myself in life. (Lots of trial and error!)

A liberated wife then completed the transformation from old-fashioned dinosaur to the model of perfection that I am today. (Heh, heh) Seriously though, I *DO* do my bit about the house, and can cook a meal, work a washing machine or iron, or vacuum, dust and polish with the best of them. Men's attitudes towards household chores and looking after the kids are definitely changing for the better, and many more men today have taken on the role than in the past, while their wives go out and earn the family crust. But women still have to shoulder some of the blame for men's incapacity to pull their weight in a domestic situation. As well as spoiling their sons, lots of women (even today!!) are quite content to cater to almost every whim and desire of their husbands, and to comply with the traditional role model of wife and mother. Not that there is anything particularly wrong with this, mind you, if that is the woman's choice. But if it isn't, then sparks will most definitely fly!

There are some aspects of feminism that don't particularly appeal to me.
There seems to be an ongoing war being waged in the media about, of all things, the attitude of certain golf clubs towards women. It started up over in the USA, where Augusta National (where they hold the US Master's Championship every spring) still refuse to consider women for membership, and to allow them to tread their hallowed turf. Since then, the debate has hit Irish shores, as Portmarnock Golf Club here in Dublin still have a closed door policy as far as allowing women to become full members is concerned.
Woman's groups have seized on this anomaly, (and it *IS* an anomaly these days) and have continually called for Tiger Woods and the leading golf professionals to boycott the Masters until Augusta change their men only policy.
Both Augusta and Portmarnock are 'cocking a snoot' at all concerned, and (so far) refusing to budge from their rather old-fashioned policy regarding women members. Naturally enough, the media have got themselves into a real feeding frenzy about this situation, and it is ongoing both here in Ireland and over in the States.

However, this exclusion policy, while on the face of it discriminating against women, bears further examination.
For years, I was a member of a golf club in County Wicklow (Arklow) that had a similar policy in place. Women were only allowed to become 'associate' members, and the days and times when they could avail of a tee time to play golf were somewhat restricted. Also, they had no say in the internal affairs and running of the club, and couldn't attend or vote at the A.G.M. (annual general meeting)
At that time, Arklow had embarked on an extensive re-vamp of the golf course, and were employing considerable numbers of young workers from a Government agency something similar to the Youth Employment Agency in the UK. The club paid half their wages, and the Government the remainder. (Basically, it was a ploy on the Government's part to massage the unemployment figures and make them more acceptable!)

The Government stated that they would withdraw all the labour unless the golf club changed their rules regarding women members, and Arklow complied forthwith. (They weren't a wealthy club!) But here's the rub. Full membership (with all privileges) was offered to something over 200 women associate members, at the full yearly subscription. Only a handful (less than ten!) availed of this offer, as they were quite happy with only paying about half of the men's annual subscription, and *DIDN'T WANT* full membership.

Also, many golf clubs nowadays (especially the older more established clubs like Portmarnock) have *VERY* long waiting lists for membership. You get yourself proposed and seconded by an existing member, and then generally have to wait God only knows how many years to be invited to become a full member. (Dead men's shoes!) So even if Portmarnock *WERE* to open their doors to women members tomorrow, they would have to get themselves both proposed and seconded, and then join the waiting list. Otherwise it would be discrimination against the many men who have been waiting for donkey's years for full membership. I've simply brought up this example as an instance of how some woman's groups can 'jump on the bandwagon' when demanding equal status for women in all and every situation, without looking dispassionately at the situation, and weighing up all the pros and cons.
It's almost a case of "You'll have equality even if you *DON'T* want it".

OK. I've gone on enough.
As I said at the start of this review, you can really only scratch the surface of this subject. Discrimination against women is a thorny and complex issue, and not one that is going to be satisfactorily answered in the near future. (If it *EVER* is!)

**********

© KenJ

(Originally posted at Ciao in 2002, and adapted and edited for posting here at dooyoo)

**********

Summary: A complex and thorny issue, with no easy answers

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Overall rating: Very useful

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Last comments:
velissaria

- 13/12/09

In addition, the Masons don't accept women in their ranks, and certain religions, Christianity included, don't accept women as visitors at certain "holy areas" e.g. at some male monasteries, even if they are dressed properly.

No matter what men say, most still believe that in general women are weak, emotional, hysterical, manipulative, liars, bitchy, frivolous, superficial, "catty", unstable and even spiritually "unclean". Unfortunately, there are many women out there that prove them right and this does not help...
Nibelung

- 24/01/09

Obviously the news hadn't reached the Aussie pub I was in a while back, which had a brass plaque proclaiming 'Gentlemen - No top, no service. Ladies - No top, free beer!'
Secre

- 23/01/09

I personally believe that things have gone the opposite way with on a lot of discrimination going against men...

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