New Diesel Car Buyers Beware (More Motors Forum)

Member Name: tazzywazzy

Product:	More Motors Forum
Date:	13/11/07 (1098 review reads)
Rating:

Advantages: Cleaner Emissions

Disadvantages: Expensive Maintanance

This is a bit of a change to my normal reviews, it is not about going out, eating, or drinking, it is about an oh so interesting diesel particulate filter! Now I am treating this as a bit of a challenge, since my knowledge of cars goes as far as "that's a green car" or maybe "that car has metallic paint", and as for my knowledge of the inner workings of a car or their parts - well that's man domain.

After my last statement, before I go into my review, I think I should add that women are just as capable of fiddling with car parts as men (there I did my bit for womanistness).
For anyone who is anywhere near technical, please note, this is written for people like me who have no idea about cars or their inner workings, the review is based on a nice little story and no technical jargon in sight - sorry to disappoint!

~"What is a diesel particulate filter?"~
A diesel particulate filter or a DPF is surprisingly enough found in diesel cars, from what I can gather, it is "like" the catalytic converter, in non-diesel cars, but instead of reducing the toxicity of the fumes, it cleans the exhaust gases that are created by burning diesel fuel.

Now the stuff that the filter needs to clean or get rid of from the fumes is like soot, so it follows that the soot needs to be removed from the filter in some way (this is the important bit to focus on, you will be tested later!).
~This is all a bit boring - why exactly aren't you writing about the stuff you know - like restaurants and drinking and debauchery?~

Snarf recently bought a new car, a Seat Leon FR, a very nice car actually, I was going to put this review under the product, but I thought it was a bit unfair to single Seat out, as Seat are not the only manufacturer who will be putting this part in their cars.
So the story starts:

Snarf got his new car and whist ogling it, the man told us that it was fitted with a DPF and that this part was going to be in all new diesel cars by 2009, to comply with new legislations. It was explained that there is a little warning light on the dashboard, and it would come on if the filter needed clearing. The man told us that if the warning light came on, to clear the filter the car would need to be driven on a motorway (for the technical ones out there, so that the revs reach a certain rpm).
We all thought nothing of it (Snarf's brother also got the same car, how sad are they?) and set off on our merry ways. Oh, the man also told us that we had to be careful with the filters, as they were really expensive parts to replace - about £1,000.

So we had the car for a while and did a fair bit of motorway driving at the beginning - seeing parents and the like, and everything seemed fine, Snarf was very much enjoying his new toy. A couple of weeks ago, and with only 600 miles on the clock, the warning light flashed up, so Snarf took it up to the A12 to give it a run, but the filter did not clear. So he called Daddy Snarf, who actually owns the dealership that the cars were bought from, he suggested taking the battery out, poking it and prodding it (well, it was probably more technical than that, but that's what I heard).
Another problem to mention with the filter was that ALL the warning lights eventually came on, on the dashboard, and the car would only reach a maximum of about 40 miles an hour, so what to do? - To clear the DPF the car needs to be driven at motorway speeds, to get the revs up and the heat of the engine up, to burn off the "soot" and clear the filter.

~The AA Come to the Rescue~
In the end, the poor car limped home and Snarf called Seat, as he was still under warranty. Seat sent out an AA man to have a look at the car (part of the service you get when you buy a new Seat), but the man could not fix it - he and Snarf ummed and ahhed over it for a long time, but unfortunately no amount of manly standing around the car could fix it. He told Snarf to call Seat and get them to arrange for the AA to take it the the nearest Seat dealership.

Snarf followed the instructions and another AA man came along and fixed the car to the back of his van and took it away. Snarf later spoke to the Seat dealership - New Southgate Seat.
~The dealership - New Southgate Seat~

New Southgate Seat was our closest dealership, we were told that we could not get the car looked at until Tuesday, but that the AA could tow the car down and leave it with the sales team, which we thought was fine, so the AA took the car down, and left the keys in the capable hands of the Sales Team.
On the Wednesday, after the appointment, Snarf called up New Southgate Seat and asked if they had found out what was wrong with the car. The worrying response from the receptionist/services desk was that the appointment was cancelled as we had not shown up for our appointment. At this point Snarf began to freak-out, as they were saying that his car was not even on the premises! After a couple of phone calls to the very helpful team at the AA the car was eventually located in their lot *phew*.

We finally found out that the DPF needed replacing, and it was going to cost a grand total of (no pun intended) £1,500. The dealership needed to get confirmation from Seat that they would pay for the part to be replaced - this was to take about three days.
~SEAT - hang your heads in shame~

After the debacle of the loosing of the car, New Southgate redeemed themselves. Seat stated that this very expensive part was not covered by the warranty and that Snarf would have to shell out the money himself to get it fixed. New Southgate Seat tried to persuade them that in fact Seat should play for the part, as it was a new car with 600 miles on the clock and the part was faulty.
Seat still refused. Snarf asked the dealership to just order the part in, but they didn't want to - it is an expensive part and they needed assurance that someone was going to pay for it - fair enough. The recommended that Snarf got in touch with Seat Customer Services.

~Time for the Big Guns. Time to shoot Seat down~
Daddy Snarf phoned up Seat and explained that he owned a dealership, and that he had purchased two shiny new cars, one grey and one black (that was me technically describing the specs of each of the cars) for his two Snarf Sons, and that one of them was broken. He carried on to explain that it was the grey one that was broken, and explained the story above, all about the filter and the driving and the trying to clear the filter.

Easiest thing to do, at this point, is a dramatic reconstruction:
Daddy Snarf: Hello Seat, I have a problem with the diesel particulate filter in your new grey (Seat Leon FR) car

Seat: What's the problem
Daddy Snarf: It's broken, at this point, story above is recounted

Seat: Does Mini Snarf do a lot of inner city driving?
Daddy Snarf: He lives in the city and the majority of his driving is in the city

Seat: We don't recommend that you buy a car with a particulate filter in it if you live in the city
Daddy Snarf: I have read the sales manual and the car manual and it doesn't say anything about the car being unsuitable for inner city driving

Seat: well it's not
Daddy Snarf: Are you telling me that I should go back to all my customers that I have sold the car to and tell them that if they are going to do a lot of town/city driving that the car is going to break? And that in future I should tell any future purchasers of this particular car that they shouldn't buy it if they are going to be doing a lot of town/city driving?!

Seat: er.....well.....ummmm...It says in the manual that you have to clear the filter regularly...
Daddy Snarf - We know, we tried (were you not listening to my story?), will you replace the broken part in my grey car?

Seat: no, cus it ain't covered by warranty (that is them in their cowboy voice)
Daddy Snarf: the car has only done 600 miles

Seat: er....well...er....I'll get someone to call you back
*I will update here when we finally get an answer from Seat*

~The bottom line (and some sort of techie bits)~
From 2009 all new diesel cars will need to be fitted with DPF's, according to wickipedia there are a variety of different filters (see link below). The AA break it down nice and simply by explaining that the filter is like a "bag in your vacuum cleaner" and that like the bag, it needs to be "emptied regularly to maintain performance" and this is called "regeneration".

Snarf explained to me that this process happens when the engine gets to a certain temperature, it cleans the filter. You can achieve this by driving the car above 40mph (i.e. On a motorway).
~Problem Solva (with my revolva)

After a bit of investigative journalism (I asked Snarf), I have found that in fast cars, like Snarf's, with a 6th gear, the filter will not get cleared when driving down the motorway, as the revs are not high enough, the car needs to be dropped into fifth gear to keep the revs high, therefore heating the engine and getting rid of the soot.
Daddy Snarf reckons that you can clear the filter by turning the car on and revving the engine - Tazzywazzy believes the following:

If the engine needs to be hot and at a certain rev count (Snarf mention something along the lines of 250, but I might be making it up) then you are going to have to spend an awful lot of time revving and waste an awful lot of diesel if you need to do this on a regular basis.
Tazzywazzy also asked the following question, surely Seat must be able to tell you roughly how much driving in a town or city will cause the particulate filter to clog, that way you can anticipate the problem and take the car out for a spin, before the problem actually happens.

Seat's response - "we don't know"
~Trust the one's who know~

On the AA website (see weblink below) they state that when the filter reaches about 45% a warning light will come on, but when it reaches about 75% other warning lights come on, on our car all the lights came on straight away. AA also say that when this happens the car needs to go back to the dealer for "regeneration" - I think this means for a new part and shelling out a grand.
The AA state that they are "seeing some evidence of these systems failing to regenerate, even on cars used mainly on motorways" they also say that if you are doing town/city driving - don't bother (that was me surmising).

~Tazzywazzy has the final say (as usual)~
If we had known about this first, we may have gone for our first choice of car a BMW 1 series, but it was much more expensive that the Seat Leon, and we would have bought it second hand, and Daddy Snarf doesn't stock them, oh and BMW servicing is expensive.

If you are considering buying a new car in the near future, I have thought of some points to consider (all on my own!):
Diesels are cheaper to run and (generally) more reliable, but if you have to run your car every x amount of miles that you do "regular, everyday driving" how much extra does this cost you in fuel per month?

If you are going to have to replace a rather expensive, temperamental, and necessary piece of the car often, due to the filter filling up or failing, fairly often - maybe going for a "more unreliable" petrol engine is the way forward.
Hope this has helped, I was completely unaware of this new legislation and bit of car (unsurprisingly) but the AA were very surprised that either Snarf or I knew it existed and how to try and clear it - information is not widely available and it seems that even the dealership's are unaware of the ramifications of this part, due to the manufacturers not telling people the whole story.

Webography:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieselparticulate filter
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-en vironment/diesel-p articulate-filters.htm

Summary: Is it really worth it?