You dont want us, so we'l take our oil and leave :p (Scottish Independence)

Member Name: johnnycarrotheid

Product:	Scottish Independence
Date:	27/06/06 (567 review reads)
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Waited a couple of days to write this review as i waited on a product suggestion being answered.
Interestingly the subject of Scottish Independence has never come up here before.


I decided to write a review on Scottish Independence last week as i saw on the news a little snippet on English attitudes to us up North.
The article was about the successor to Tony Blair, ie Gordon Brown.
Apparently 51% of those questioned in England said they didnt agree with a Scot being Prime Minister.
(despite the fact Tony Blair was born in Edinburgh so is technically Scottish lol)
Why is there such resentment and why does England want to push Scotland away ?
A lot of this was based on the fact Scotland has its own Parliament now. But then so does Wales and Northern Ireland (when they get it going again)

Westminster is supposed to administer the WHOLE of the UK.
While each of the others deal with that particular country.
The Scottish Parliament deals with only Scottish issues, but not with UK wide issues such as defence etc. We can make our own laws, but then Scottish law has always been seperate from English law anyway. Education etc is also totally seperate from the UK version.
Now English MP's don't like the fact that Scots MP's can vote on issues such as this (health, law etc) whereas they cannot vote on those that effect Scotland.
This isnt Scotlands fault, it is England and your own MP's faults.
I propose English Devolution, a seperate "Parliament" to deal with English issues, while keeping Westminster to deal with wider UK ones.

England is the only country in the UK not to have its own Parliament.
Isnt it about time that changed??

England has to rely on Westminster in order to do anything, allowing ALL the British MP's to have a say on a possibly English only matter.
This takes time and drags things on, as we all know Westmister does, meaning anything that goes to Westminster will take forever to become law and will come out a poor shadow of whatever it started out in life as.

If you wish, an example...

The Smoking in public enclosed places ban that is currently in force in Scotland.
Scotland decided it wanted to do this, it went to our own Parliament and it was passed.
Whats happened for the rest of the UK??
It went to Westminster, where our Scottish MP's were able to vote on it when we already have a ban in place, and its been mashed and contorted all sorts of ways that, when it was a ban like in Scotland, then changed to certain pubs/clubs, then you could get a license to avoid the ban etc etc.
Total shambles.

An English Parliament, would have it sorted out by now, with only English people, that will be affected by it, being able to vote on it.

4 individual Parliaments, with Westminster in a lesser role, to deal with all the stuff left over.
It's going to happen eventually.
After all, Scotland has had a degree of autonomy and control over Health, Law, Education for, in some cases hundreds of years. Not just after Scottish Devolution.
A lot will change after the Welsh/ Northern Irish start to do things their own way.
At the moment they are based on an English model with the same structure and implementation as England. This is obviously going to change with their own degree of control over their own affairs.

This i see, is the only way of the UK continuing as it is, as a United Kingdom.

Otherwise, i see Scotland continuing from devolution and becoming totally Independent.

After all, if the poll is accurate, and English folk dont want a Scot being able to become Prime Minister, what is the point of us being in the Union at all??
Once Tony Blair stands down is when it will all start. He will back Gordon Brown of course, but if there is such sentiment that he shouldnt be Prime Minister as he is Scottish, then it will just push Scotland further and further away.

As i see it, Scotland is split down the middle as it is anyway.
If there was a referendum on Independence tomorrow i honestly could not say what way it would go.
With devolution, more and more Scots and asking the question
"What is the point of Westminster any more?".
Our own Parliament has brought in things up here which would never happen in England. Also, any time we see anything on the news about new laws being introduced, debated and the likes, we know they will not affect us in Scotland, so we are less and less interested.

Practically every debate in the last year/few years at Westminster has had nothing at all to do with Scotland.
Fox hunting - we banned it first and have our own interpretation.
Student fees - We abolished them at least 4 years ago now. This is ongoing, as England keeps talking about Top-Up Fees, which will also have nothing to do with us. Scots students are unaffected, but English ones here may be charged here, to avoid overcrowding in Scots Uni's.
Smoking ban - Already banned in Scotland, still debated at Westminster.
Practically every issue on health, law, education us Scots just ignore at Westminster.

The Iraq War falls under Westminster, so is one of the few areas where we have a united British front.
Scotland would have went anyway, not as a US co-alition, but with the rest of Britain, had we had an independent say. I'm sure the Scots Westminster MP's all had their own reasons for voting.

Westminster has become a British Parliament, which has no say in a part of Britain.
Pretty crazy.

Most Scots arent too bothered and seem to be split on Independance. Being part of Britain means we have a bigger say in what goes on around us. An Independant Scotland would have a much smaller say, and if we joined the EU as an independent nation, we would be "swallowed up" and not able to fight off the bureaucratic rubbish and shockingly accepted amount of corruption in the EU.
After all we are only a population of just over 5 Million.
Britain has a large say in Europe, and can effectively tell it to bugger off when it wants, Scotland itself couldnt.
We could of course not join the EU, which would perhaps hit us economically. It would screw up the fishing industry even more than it has i'm sure.

Economically Scotland would survive pretty well.
Norway is similar to Scotland, with it's small population and oil reserves. They didnt have to share it and so were able to keep it and save it away, while building up their country into its quite safe financial footing it is in today. They have billions set aside from their Oil, which just accumulates interest and is invested, so is able to provide for its various social programs, which beat the UK.
On our own, we may be able to build this up, but it would take time.
Scotlands best asset is its natural resources. We are close to hitting the 20% generated by Re-newable energy mark, so in a few years this, implemented with various other things they could do like home energy saving/generating, could put us far ahead of the rest of the world. 20% at the moment probably has us in that position already.
Hell, with the wind and wave potential, we could power England and charge you for it, getting our oil money back.
We could build a couple more reservoirs and pump down water whenever you get a hosepipe ban as well. Although i'm sure we sent some down before in container trucks one year, since we have loads.
We have plenty industry and exports, and the tourism sector has always been good at fleecing as much money as possible from visitors. Its cheap to set up here so we dont have too much trouble attracting investment. Exports even include Irn Bru, which is more popular than Coke or Pepsi here, and is now popular in places such as Moscow, and i seen it for sale in Canada when i was there. Strange as it is made 10-15minutes drive from my home.
Unemployement is low, mainly because the population is low, and is why there were loads of happy faces when the Eastern Europeans started coming here for work. It boosted the workforce and employers werent scrambling for workers. Our population is low as Scots just traditionally like to leave Scotland when they are younger, leaving a vaccum of young workers.

Personally i believe Scotland could easily become and stay Independent.
Whether we want to, or if it is in fact beneficial to us is another matter.
As we are, we are able to basically rule and do what we want, while retaining the international power of being in the United Kingdom. To go that last step we would lose that, and that i think is what is actually keeping Scotland here. If Britain was to ever lose its International influence or its say in the EU, i think Scotland would be having a referendum the next week.
This is essentially my view as well.
I like the current set-up, i just get annoyed at being taken for granted or ignored/forgotten about by our English neighbours when it was a partnership that got us to where we are, and neither country could have done so much in its history individually. The empire would never have happened, it was mainly Scots that ran the East India Trading Co, and something like 1/4 of the signatorys of the US Declaration of Independence were Scots or educated by Scots. Most of the colony's teachers being Scots who fled Scotland. Scotland was different from England even then, having had a Scots army march on London just 30 years previous to the US independence. It was most likely the Scots roots and history that kept us friends till today.

Also dont take for granted the amount your commentators piss off Scots during the world cup.
I just watched the Ukraine game tonight, and for the full half time commentary they just talked about Englands chances in continuing with the world cup. They even said so themselves
"oh yea, theres a Ukraine game still going on, beter get back to that".
How about actually commentating on the game you are watching and not going off subject totally, talking about England again....and again...and again.....and again, during and after every damn match.
If i'm watchin a Ukraine match i want to hear about the Ukraine match. Especially if i missed a bit. I dont need to hear or see England replays for the 50th time while Gary Lineker deludes himself that England can actually win it.
Had to squeeze a rant about the football in there somewhere.

BTW on the issue of sport, Andy Murray at the tennis is the great British hope now. Last time someone said he was British, he told them he wasnt, he was Scottish.
Cant blame him after the Scottish Curling Women that won the Gold were re-branded "British" when they won something.
Course if they were English, they were just English.

Little things like that make us think were not wanted.
Independence would be good just to get our own Olympic team, then it would be no more "God Save The Queen".
Most boring anthem ever, good thing we have our own.

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Edit for comment Replies..

About the English person getting stabbed in Scotland because he was English. That just happens in Scotland, these idiots dont need a reason to stab innocent bystanders.
Also, one idiots actions doesnt reflect on entire nation. Otherwise, we would view all English people as boozed up violent hooligans.
Your reply strangely gives a reason why we get annoyed with the English.
Why compare a German being PM, with a Scot being PM. Scots do have a rightfull place in Westminster you know, its not a place for England to rule from.

The curling team were competing in the British team, but they were ALWAYS referred to as Scots, up until they won, when it switched to they were British, and the "Pride of Britain" etc. Compare this to seeing an English athlete win, then all you hear is how they are the "Pride of England". See the difference??
Scottish achievements are swallowed up and made British ones, while English achievements can remain exclusively so.

Barnet formula is flawed.
Firstly Scotland is actively reducing the difference as we knew it wouldnt last forever.
Also, whenever a comparison is made, an independent Scotland's tax difference never includes the Oil taxes.
Include the tax gained from the Oil and it would balance things out a lot.
Westminster doesnt want to lose these, but Scotland is a lot stronger now than when devolution was introduced. If we wanted to leave and control our own oil taxes we could, quite simply.

Why should Scotland support England in the world cup??
You are a different country, and quite honestly are totally different to us when it comes to football, so i fail to see why.
Your commentators put anyone thinking of it off though.
You could have an Argentina v Brazil game, and it being the best game seen for years, and the English commentators would sit and guaranteed run through what england would be doing, and how they could beat these teams etc etc and so on and so on, for the majority of the commentary.
I'm not English, and the teams i am watching arent English so why is it all i hear is about England??
If English fans arent watching an England match, why do they want it interupted with non-stop gibberish about the England team.
If Scotland are playing in a tournament, and we arent playing in that actual match, we arent going to go off and ignore the match and start talking about ourselves.
It's just ignorant......and thats how it makes England look.

25% are on the dole, if you actually knew up here you would know theres that many jobs you wouldnt last a week without them stuffing you into some shitty job or other.
We might have 25% pensioners though lol. And the damn free homecare is keeping them all alive to irritate the hell out of me when i go out and am swarmed by Pensioneeeers :s Its freaky, its like a giant Blue Rinse floating towards you.

Yea we have a funny relationship with you lot down south, but we dont go beating you up and knifing you (any more than we do to each other lol).
Hell, my bookies i work in was full of English folk at the weekend, amd i'm just outside glasgow. Bookies is beside a pub, so may be trouble you may think, but they all just watched the footie and got pished together. (irritating english commentary was switched off though of course)
Yea we get a bit pissed off at you sometimes, but its usually because you come across a bit arrogant, and most English dont have a scooby about Scotland so we kinda look at you like we do the Yanks.
We dont hate the yanks, yea they can be bloody irritating but we get on fine mostly. Same with the English lol

Summary: Good and workable, just dont want to lose the international status in the UK